Sunday, January 31, 2016

Kaelah's Corner (Jan 2016):
Why Are Some Women Reluctant To Spank Men?

A while ago, Hermione and her readers discussed a very intriguing topic at the spanking brunch. The question had been raised by Bogey from Our Bottoms Burn. I wrote a comment on Hermione's blog which I am going to reprint here with a few additional thoughts. I didn't want my comment on Hermione's blog becoming too long, certainly not as long as this post is going to be. Hopefully, you have a drink and a bite to eat at hand. This might take a while to read.

So the question I would like to talk about today is: Do you think that most women are reluctant to spank men? Why or why not?

Well, of course there is quite a number of female switches or tops who aren't reluctant to spank men at all. As a switch and someone who likes getting spanked as much as dishing out a spanking, I am one of them. But I think that there is indeed quite a large number of women who are reluctant to spank men. For instance, this becomes quite obvious when you read the comments on Hermione's post. I think I have come across quite a few reasons why women are reluctant to spank men. Here they are:

1.) Initial reluctance to top as a newbie:

I've experienced that myself. Even though I was never opposed to the thought of spanking another person, I preferred to make my first experiences in the scene as a bottom. That way I could rely on the guidance of an experienced top and get a feeling for how it is to be on the receiving end before topping another person. I've seen quite a few (especially young) women who started out as spankees only and developed into switches or maybe even exclusive tops after a while.

The same might be true for quite a few male kinksters as well. Ludwig, for instance, made his first experiences as a bottom, even though he already knew at that point that he was much more interested in topping. He didn't want to top someone without having experienced a spanking "from the other side", though, which is why he made his very first experiences on the receiving end. Fenris, who defines himself as a switch, also wrote in his account on his first more intense spanking experience which he made with Ludwig and me that bottoming was much less scary for him than topping, because the latter meant being responsible for another person's well-being and held the risk of hurting a play partner involuntarily because of his inexperience.

However, I think that, on average, I have heard of more women who took a very long time before trying to top than men. Especially the phenomenon of being interested in bottoming only at a very young age and only developing an interest in topping after several years is one that seems to be more widespread among women than among men, at least that is my impression from the blogs I have read.

2.) Personal sexual preferences:

Even among those for whom spanking is "just" a form of erotic play, some people simply only enjoy being on the giving or the receiving end. Maybe they even try out switching, but decide that it doesn't give them the thrill they are seeking.

One well-known person who comes to my mind, who I think fits this description very well, is Erica Scott. Those among you who have read her blog know that she has tried a few things over time and that her partner is a bottom, too (so she certainly hasn't got any prejudices against male bottoms). But obviously, Erica found out that being on the receiving end of a spanking is her core kink, the experience which pushes the right buttons for her, and so that's the way she plays. It's simply a matter of preferences, nothing more and nothing less.

3.) Spanking in D/s-, DD-, M/s-relationships:

The majority of men and women in these kinds of relationships only seem to practice spanking with their partner. It is more than sexual play here, though, it is about permanent roles in the relationship. One is the dominant / HOH / leader / daddy / master or however a certain couple defines the role, while the other is the submissive / follower / girl / slave (in an M/F-relationship, that is - of course, there are similar F/M-relationships as well).

I've come across very few exceptions from that rule, but it seems to me that usually the concept of these relationships connects the role of the spanker with the role of the leader and doesn't allow for any spanking experiences the other way round. So, if a woman in such a relationship sees herself as the submissive, she has no interest in switching because she wants her man to be in the role of the leader all the time and being the spanker is a part of that role.

I have to admit that this category is one that makes me feel a bit uneasy because of the permanent power imbalance which is inherent to them. Permanently giving up control to another person (at least concerning a certain number of important aspects of life) is something that in my mind doesn't really go together with living a life as a responsible, self-reliant adult. That's especially true when the amount of control covers all the basic aspects of life (of course not all of the above mentioned relationships go this far!) and when the submissive is also economically dependent on the top.

Of course, two things have to be taken into account, though. First of all, many "vanilla" relationships incorporate the same power imbalance and economic dependency of one partner. I've come across quite a few negative examples in my parents' and grandparents' generation, which is most probably why the concept raises such negative feelings on my behalf. But, and that's the more important second point: Every adult is of course free to decide how they want to live their lives. As long as they really have a free choice and their lifestyle doesn't affect others in a negative way or forces them to live in a way they are uncomfortable with, the very important rule "to each their own" applies. The concept doesn't have to be for me and maybe I even see certain possible dangers which go along with it, but that doesn't give me any right to tell others that they shouldn't live that way.

4.) Cultural background / traditional gender roles / religious beliefs about gender roles:

I think this approach is even more extreme than the last one I wrote about because it is based on the assumption that men and women generally have to fulfil certain ("naturally given") traditional gender roles which also define their role when it comes to (erotic) spanking. According to this belief, the fact that men are usually physically stronger than women also means that they are the natural leaders in a relationship who should take their (soft, submissive) woman in hand. Since spanking is seen as an expression of that male dominance and strength, there is only one "correct" way according to this belief - and that is a man spanking a woman.

This is a concept that really scares the hell out of me because it involves the belief in natural or God-given gender roles. And that means, of course, that someone who really believes in this must be of the opinion that these gender roles should apply to all people, not only to one's personal relationship. And that threatens my personal freedom of choice and life (having to live according to those traditional gender roles would be absolutely horrible for me).

Connecting physical strength with certain gender aspects like who should earn the money in a relationship is of course complete bullshit nowadays. There are still a few jobs which require physical strength, but most of our jobs in the developed world today don't. And arguing that gender roles should still be the same as they were hundreds of years ago because at that time physical power played a role doesn't really make any sense. Because with the same argument you wouldn't employ short-sighted people who would have struggled to survive and to do most jobs in the old times before glasses were invented.

I could go on like that covering one topic after another (for instance, child care), but I think you have already got my stance. And I am sure that I won't be able to convince those who believe in these traditional roles, anyway (after all, it's a belief, something that is usually very strong and carefully warded off against rational arguments!), while I don't have to convince those among you who have a similar view as me.

One last point I would like to mention: In my comment on concept three I said that of course every adult is free to choose their own lifestyle as long as free choice is indeed given. That's another aspect that makes me feel uncomfortable about the natural or God-given gender approach because it has usually been ingrained very deeply into a person as a child by their parents and / or religious teachers. As our long-time readers know, I once was a religious person, so I know how difficult it is to question religious beliefs which one has been taught during childhood. That's why I am a bit critical when it comes to the question whether choosing such a lifestyle is really based on freedom of choice. Mind you, our upraising influences all of us, but in this special case we are talking about concepts which are claimed to be natural or God-given. I would say it is much more difficult to question such concepts than those which we were taught simply with the argument that they are good or useful for us.

5.) The "Men who seek out being spanked or are spanked can't be real tops / are weak" approach:

I think this one is closely connected to number 4, but I guess you can also find it among women who only seek spankings for erotic fun and go to spanking parties. The idea behind it is that someone who isn't toppy / dominant all the time isn't a "real" top / dominant.

In my opinion, this approach causes even more problems for male switches than women who simply aren't interested in switching. Because even admitting that they have switched / are willing to switch in their play can make it difficult for them to find a play partner.

I guess I don't have to tell you that in my opinion this approach is bullshit, too, because in my opinion people can't be reduced to one trait or interest. When I am topping I like taking control and I very much enjoy what I am doing. When I am bottoming, I enjoy the opportunity of focussing on myself only. As a woman, I have to say that I always found male switches more attractive as tops, anyway, because they are willing to take what they dish out, which in my opinion is a sign of strength. Of course, I wouldn't want any guy to switch if it simply doesn't turn him on. But in my view, the really weak guys are those who would like to switch but aren't willing to admit it because they are scared that this might damage their dominant aura when topping.

So much for the reasons I have come across why some women are reluctant to spank men. I would like to add that especially number 4 seems to depend a lot on the country people live in – it is obviously much more common in the US than, for instance, here in Germany (where there are also quite many spanking parties for men who see spanking as erotic fun and like to be on the receiving end).

Now, this has become a really long post (I have warned you)! Maybe you would like to share your thoughts on the topic as well? It seemed like Bogey didn't get too many answers that helped him with his question at Hermione's brunch (most female commenters just said how wrong topping a guy would feel for them). So maybe you have come across a few more reasons which I haven't covered in my post why quite a few women are reluctant to spank men. Or maybe you would also like to share your personal experiences. You are very welcome to do so in the comment section of this post!


Our Bottoms Burn said...

It is a very well reasoned treatment of the topic. Well done. I had not considered, in this context, how rigid cultural rules affect all those around them. Yes, I have been to parties, where I could not be a switch, because that would mean I would not be doing any spanking either.

Simon said...

I think your piece covers almost all the points however I think that within the spanking scene (a phrase I'm not entirely happy with but I can't think of a better one)there is an image problem for lady spankers. The majority of F/M images portray the woman as a fearful, ball busting stereotypical leather wearing dominatrix. Even when they are wearing normal clothes the language implies a similar mindset. Don't get me wrong I enjoy those images and have enjoyed that type of experience however I do feel that it can put off women who might want to try spanking a man but doesn't want to adopt a similar persona. Almost every woman who has spanked me or punished me has felt obliged to act in this fashion.

Anonymous said...

The part that is very relevant for me is that as a heterosexual woman is that i've suffered the very real and deep wounds of male patriarchy from the time I was a child. To me, kink is a way of gaining back my power. By re-living the same experience but this time with having the power to invite the situation and put limits on the situation. Something I am not granted in the real world, ever.

I'm sure some women will take issue wit this and say that is not their experience. That is fine, I'm not speaking for all women, I am speaking only for myself.

I absolutely need consensual male authority kink in my life in order to balance and help me heal from the nonconsensual male authority that I have to suffer everyday multiple times a day. It is my only relief from the social situation that I find myself in.

Again I am speaking only for myself here. But when a man wants me to spank him, I understand his request and his desire to deal with a time when he also felt out of control, I instinctively understand that. But to me it feels to me exactly like being put upon when asked to give him head or accept anal sex before a man has gotten to know me and have a deep romantic relationship with me. I was born a woman, i have a vagina that loves cock. I have orgasms first and foremost in my vagina. When men want to put their cock anywhere other than my vagina,it pisses me off. I get orgasms in my vagina. If a guy just sees me as a collection of holes and my vagina being the one he wants to avoid the most, it cannot do anything but piss me off. I was not put on this Earth to service guys and get nothing back from it.

Another thing that makes me feel like I'm supposed to perform for a man is when he tells me he loves giving oral sex. I think he's trying to sound as if he's generous and wanting to give pleasure but to me it's just another demand on me to perform for him. Women make jokes about faking orgasms because being able to watch a woman orgasm seems so important to guys. Again I'm not a here for their pleasure.

I want my own pleasure, and I want some control too. Honest control. Please don't tell me how to perform for you to please you, because it's really hard for me to orgasm and the conditions have to be just right. I know women who can orgasm at the drop of a hat and I'm jealous of them because that's not my experience. I'm looking for someone who actually honestly cares about me and is happy to please me the way I don't even know sometimes how I want to be pleased. other than I know I need a few basic things.

Me personally I need 1. spankings to get me aroused, then 2. Male Domination to inspire my female submission further then once i'm in submissive head space I need to be encouraged by the man with 3. A sexual technique that is passive and patient so I can get what I need from a man. I've only been able to consistently have orgasms with, was able to cum a little, then keep his erection for a long enough time for me to ride on top of him cowgirl style while he gently stimulated my clit. Then I'd orgasm multiple times, it felt like thousands of times. All of this was done for my pleasure. I had the control ultimately, but also his encouragement and cooperation.

I am on this Earth for the same reason all of us are here. To help each other and if that includes loving each other and giving pleasure to each other, then I'm very grateful.

Once a man shows me that rare amount of patience, caring, and consideration for my needs I'll bend over backwards to please him too. But in a world where I have precious little control over everyday patriarchy, I need to find a way to work out my control within that daily kind of psychological damage.

Sorry for being so graphic, so specific to my situation, and so demanding, but I thought a serious conversation about this subject warranted that level of honestly.

Anonymous said...

p.s. clarification on the specific technique.
1. spankings get me aroused in two different ways, first, the physical vibrations of being spanked reverberate in my vagina and feel similar to having a cock in my pussy.
2. Also the threat, promise, or action of being spanked consensually is my way of psychologically getting pleasure from the daily experience of nonconsensual patriarchy. What I'm saying when I am consensually asking for Male Domination and I am consensually granting my female submission, then I am regaining control in a sexually pleasurable way from a situation that is normally uncomfortable. I'm flipping around the uncomfortable nonconsensual situation and making it something I have control over so that I can gain pleasure from it, some "sexual healing" to quote Marvin Gaye.
3. the sexual technique where I was able to consistently enjoy orgasms was with a boyfriend who came up with this technique with me. We would play until he was able to cum, but he would stop his orgasm half way through, so he would retain an erection. Then I sat on top of him cowgirl style while he pinched my nipples and gentle massaged my clit and moved in a way that lead to my having multiple orgasms. At some point my boyfriend would move in a way that he could finish his orgasm too, and it was lovely for both of us to orgasm together.

Thank you for letting me explain this more clearly.

Anonymous said...

Dear Kaelah,
I regularly read your blog, and really admire your writing for being so honest and intelliegent. This is the first time I have ever left a message on a spanking blog. I am a 40-year-old man with a deep, passionate interest in both spanking, and being spanked by, women of my age. My partner is not really in to spanking, although she does sometimes spank me during sex. She says she enjoys it, but it is an occasional thing, and while we have a really strong relationship and an interesting sex life, I do sometimes crave contact with a spanking partner. We have talked about this, and she is happy for me to explore my feelings with someone else.

I am very shy about my kink, and have absolutely no idea how I can go about making contact with a woman who might share the same feeligs as I do. As I am very stimulated by words, I am thinking that it may be best to start to such contact by exchanging emails with someone, and so wondererd if you knew of anyone who'd be interested in sharing impressions, thoughts and stories with me?

Thank you for listening.

Kaelah said...

@ Our Bottoms Burn:
I find it very sad that male switches sometimes have to deny a vital part of their kink in order to be accepted as tops at play parties. I hope that this will become less of a problem over time, but I' not so sure whether this is going to happen.

@ Simon:
That's a very interesting aspect! The way female tops are depicted and acting is one of the reasons why I don't like many F/M videos. It's simply not an image I can identify with. Fortunately, I had come across a few (spanking) tops who didn't fit the classical dominatrix stereotype, so I didn't feel obliged to act in this fashion when I started topping myself. But I can imagine that the thought of having to fit to a certain stereotype can put some women off and keep them from topping men!

@ Female Anonymous:
Thanks for sharing your experiences! As I already wrote in a post a few years ago, I think that spanking can be used in a "therapeutic" manner by converting fears or bad experiences into something good and pleasurable. In my case, for instance, it is the fear of loosing control. In my kinky play I can let go and thus focus on pleasurable feelings in a way that is usually impossible for me in my vanilla life. Being with a partner whom I trust and knowing that I'm ultimately in control in case something doesn't feel good allows me to give up control for a while. Another aspect is that spanking can make me feel very strong, a feeling which I sometimes miss in my real life as well.

As for sexual practices: for me, it doesn't necessarily have to be PIV-sex, for instance, I also love hand jobs (giving and receiving). Their advantage is that the partner on the receiving end can completely focus on their pleasure. What I find important, of course, is that both partners get their share of attention and pleasure over time, no matter which practices they choose.

Kaelah said...

@ Male Anonymous:
Welcome and thanks a lot for commenting and having taken the plunge! I guess quite a few of us spankos are in the situation of being with a partner who doesn't share our kink (or at least not at a similar level of intensity). It's wonderful that your partner is so open and generous to encourage you to try spanking with like-minded people.

I have to admit that my experiences with contacting fellow spankos are very limited, though, and I don't really know a woman who is looking for a play partner. But maybe I can give you some ideas. When I wrote Ludwig for the first time, I already knew him from his blog. And first it was about chatting with an experienced player and maybe getting some advice. Since I knew that he was single and happy to play with others, I later asked Ludwig what he thought of the idea of introducing me to the world of erotic spanking. At that point we had already exchanged e-mails for a while, though, not only talking about kink but about many other topics as well. We also met in person two times to see whether the chemistry was right before we actually played with each other. As you can see, the development took a while and I didn't contact Ludwig to directly ask him for a play date. When we had become a couple a short time later, Ludwig and I met fellow bloggers in the scene together and I didn't have to contact any strangers in order to find someone to chat or play with.

But I can think of a few ways which might allow you to find a play partner or play partners, depending on what feels right for you. One advice would be to become an active member of one of the spanking-related online forums (like FetLife) or an active commenter in the kinky blogging community in general. That way, women who are open for personal chats or/and playing with others can "get to know you". From your writing, they see what you are interested in and that you are an eloquent friendly guy who knows how to express himself in a respectful manner. Over time, this can enable you to get into a more personal contact with fellow spankos you like. For instance, I am quite sure that I wouldn't have contacted Ludwig if I he hadn't been an active member of the kinky community and if I hadn't known a bit about him from his blog and liked his writing. And I wouldn't have asked him to meet in person if I hadn't liked his e-mails or if he had tried to put any pressure at me to meet him very soon or play with him.

Of course, you can also go to a munch or even a public play party somewhere near you if that's okay for you. The people who organise these events are usually very welcoming and supportive when someone is new to the scene. And needless to say, you only have to participate as much as you feel comfortable with. For instance, you can only chat with others at a play party and maybe watch some of the public play, in case participating yourself feels like it would be too much. If you are an active member on one of the boards or an avid commenter in the online spanking community, it can of course help you with that kind of events as well. Because others whom you know from online conversations might be there as well and it surely is easier to say hello to them at an event than to talk to complete strangers!

I'm sorry that I can't give you a "this will work for sure and it will work quickly" advice, but I hope my reply will give you at least some ideas.

Peter8862 said...

I would like to comment on your para.4 - the natural or God given dominance of men as the stronger sex and therefore the leaders in the natural order. Some might say that this is one of the relics of the savage tribal existence of many centuries ago. Of course, in today's egalitarian society, logic demands on intellectual grounds that the sexes merit equal respect, a policy to which most intelligent men would most readily subscribe. But those in-built traits have still to be accommodated and our kink is a form of therapeutic treatment that suppresses them. Maybe Mother Nature made female buttocks that much bigger to accept man's chastisement. Not really of course but it's a tempting thought !

Kaelah said...

@ Peter8862:
Interesting idea! I have to admit that I find small, well-shaped male buttocks very tempting as well, though, when it comes to the idea of giving them a sound spanking. ;-) I guess that's a good thing – that way both sides are tempted and both get their attention.

Trilisser said...

It is a scientific fact that female traits and male traits are generally present in normal people from birth, no matter how much feminist empowerment propaganda is generated be feminist liberal "researchers". Without male efforts the entire Western civilization would collapse. Such signs of degrading society as mass immigration is most evident in emasculated wimp societies like Sweden and Germany. It is my experience that most women are incapable of rational debate on anything.

Kaelah said...

@ Trilisser:
I almost took you seriously with that compilation of barroom clichés! Well, anybody who reads my posts knows of course that I am just another woman who isn't capable of debating topics rationally (that's why my posts are always short and emotional and not verbose with tons of pros and cons being meticulously analysed). Quod erat demonstrandum. ;-)

And for those who really don't get it (I don't think that is true for many of our readers, but who knows who might accidentally find their way to us): Of course there are certain traits and physical aspects which are on average stronger in men or women. But, as I already said in my post, those traits don't apply to all men or women in the same way and none of these traits makes either men or women natural leaders / followers, natural spankers / spankees (the latter not being the same as the former!) or more / less capable of debating rationally. Unfortunately there is a certain number of both men and women who aren't capable of multifaceted thinking and instead like to generalise and offend those who don't conform to their views. You can find them all over the internet (fortunately not on this blog since we don't allow offensive comments).