Kaelah's Corner (Mar 2011): R-E-S-P-E-C-T

Ludwig and I at the end of our first amateur clip.

Zille recently asked an intriguing question on her blog: What do YOU want from spanking porn? She got loads of responses and I eagerly read all the comments. And ended up in a roller coaster that has occupied my complete thoughts for about three days now.

I would like to take a closer look at the attitude towards spanking models that shows in some of the comments. At first, I only found some phrases that caused a negative gut feeling because they seemed to be a little thoughtless and could easily be misinterpreted. But then I came across one comment that was the straw which broke the camel's back and finally led to a discussion about spanking porn and ethics. I'm going to list the posts I am talking about and you can decide for yourself.

Let's start with a selection of rather harmless comments, which caused me a certain uncomfortable feeling nonetheless, because I wasn't always sure whether the writers clearly distinguished between the fantasy of a spanking scenario and the reality of a spanking porn shoot.

Mark described his preferred intensity of a spanking as follows: 

"I’d would MUCH RATHER see 2 minutes of spanking that is uncomfortable for the spankee then 20 minutes of drawn out diluted action! Give her 10 spanks that are outside her comfort zone rather then 300 she can take!"

What Mark obviously (hopefully?) meant, at least that's my guess based on the other things he wrote, is that he doesn't want long spankings that don't hurt at all with purely faked reactions, but rather short spankings which the model really feels and which cause genuine reactions. But to my mind the phrases “outside her comfort zone” and “she can take” are very misleading because it sounds like Mark would like to see the models taken beyond the limits they have agreed upon.

John Williams answered the question “What is the single most important thing to you to have in spanking porn?” like this:

"I’m gonna ignore the 'single' part and say 1) Non-sexual 2) Realistic/Genuine 3) Punishment-oriented and 4) The spanker continues uninterrupted, unfazed, and not pausing for reasons of her comfort as she begs/pleads/cries/sobs uncontrollably."

Again, if that's what the model is comfortable with, fine. But once again to me this sounds like what the model is comfortable with might not matter so much and that this is what is supposed to happen for real, not only within the storyline. The thing that made me interpret the sentences which I have quoted here in Jon Williams's favour, though, is the fact that he also talked about mouth soaping during a spanking in his comment and pointed out how important it is to take some safety measures to ensure that "it is not the least bit dangerous". So it seems to me that he in fact cares about the models' safety. Which means that he either doesn't think that crying uncontrollably could be a hurtful experience or beyond anyone's comfort zone, or that he has the implicit understanding that the model who does the scene he is talking about is one who is comfortable with these things.

The favourite spanking scene of Gilgamesh goes like this:

"I want to see real punishment of a woman by a man in a domestic situation. Age is irrelevant. Preferably caning and hard enough to leave stripes that last for a couple of weeks. There can be hand OTK before the cane. Tears and real heartfelt apologies. A description by the spankee of what she has done to deserve it. Good camera work helps too; but how you get the camera and its skilled operator to the preferably spontaneous scene I leave to the video maker. I guess the punishment might have to be postponed a few days but that doesn’t hurt."

When I read this comment (the first one of two which Gilgamesh wrote), I assumed that Gilgamesh was talking about real life DD because he even highlighted "real punishment". And my thought was: Is there any woman who is living in a DD relationship who would be comfortable with doing such a scene in front of a camera? Stripes that last for a couple of weeks? Even the cane stripes from my two very severe canings last(ed) only for about two weeks! I assumed that Gilgamesh maybe hasn't ever played for real, though, and that "stripes that last for a couple of weeks" only meant that he wanted a real spanking and not only love taps. Interestingly, Gilgamesh couldn't find his comment in the thread a bit later, so he wrote a new one. In that comment he used a different wording and it became very clear that he was indeed talking about "realistic looking" punishment scenarios, not  necessarily about real punishments. Phew, another case solved!

George's description is very nice as well:

"I like to see authentic spanking with whatever instrument is necessary to carry out the discipline, also I like to see sex and all the female parts on show, it is important to see that the female is receiving what she deserves and not some silly set ups that we see in some of the films today."

Another "deserving" woman humiliated and properly disciplined! Once again justice has been served! Joking aside, I hope George is talking about what goes on in character, not for real. He certainly did not make it in any way clear.

I did not really take offense at any of these comments. I want to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they were always merely talking about the scenarios they want to see, rather than the reality of the performers, even though they often did not make that distinction very clear. And as you can see, in some cases a follow-up comment also confirmed my assumption. Still, there were many other comments like the ones I quoted, and the endless stream about "deserving women", "real punishments", "real tears", "relentless spankings", reactions of "shock" and "desperation" was a tad disconcerting.

Adele and Niki behind the scenes at Lupus.

And finally we have Bill, who is into crying as well. In his first comment he suggested that the producers could use onions in order to help the models to cry even before the spanking begins. So far so good - if the model in question is comfortable with that, why not? But then Bill was scolded by Trollheart for his idea because Trollheart neither wanted to see faked nor forced tears. When I read Bill's answer, it was the straw which broke the camel's back:

"I said the onion thing just because I think most spanking models don't want to cry because they are too in control. It's not that I want fake tears it's that I think with a little teary mist in the air it will be enough to remove that boundary and the tears will flow whether they like it or not. Of course the best route is to find newbie models that are nervous and can't control themselves once they realize just how much it hurts and how little prepared they were but I think that is likely not going to happen."

So, what Bill obviously suggested was to bring the models to showing reactions with which they obviously aren't comfortable (“whether they like it or not”) and to take advantage of newbies' inexperience in order to get the reactions which he desires. I think that Bill's suggestions were at least utterly disrespectful towards the models who try to make his kinky dreams come true. Actually, to my mind, what Bill suggested would even be real abuse.

When Ludwig and I wrote comments pointing out the importance of respecting the models' limits during a shoot, Zille defended Bill with the following argument:

"[...] what you both are missing is that Bill has no idea about really making spanking porn. Nor should he -- the point is that he is a consumer, not producer. And the consumers deserve to have their fantasies about the porn industry left in place. If they become producers of porn, they may (and possibly SHOULD!) be in for a disappointment or other rude awakening ... but until they cross that line, Bill's idea of making a girl cry from onions is, in it's way, as valid as if he'd prefaced with, 'So here's a porn plot idea....' [...] I can tell you that the idea of the model 'forced to cry, despite herself' IS very important to Bill. And that's the veil of fiction we need to leave in place for consumers. As a model, I need to know I'm being taken care of, and I will only work with producers who will be ethical (and generally fun to work with, but that's because I can just do this for fun, now). But customers don't have those details to worry about (unless they want to) and it shouldn't be forced on them. None of us can help what turns us on. If Bill likes thinking about shoots that are possibly less consensual then they ought to be, that's his right, and he never needs to have reality get in the way of that. As makers of porn, we DO have to worry about it. He doesn't."

I strongly disagree with Zille. The point is, I have no problems with any kinds of fantasies people have and I am aware that Zille asked her readers about their fantasies and not about the question of how to bring these fantasies to life in an ethical manner. So, if Bill had written something about wanting to see models who totally let go and cry without caring about the camera, or if he had written about storylines that fulfil a "the spankee is forced to cry despite of herself" fantasy, everything would have been perfectly fine with me.

But Bill wasn't talking about a fantasy here, he was talking about the reality of a spanking porn shoot and made suggestions how a spanking shoot should be done in order to create the results he wants to see. And that's the point where to my mind ethical questions come into play and where it is in fact our duty to destroy any fantasies about the porn industry which assume that any form of real, i.e. non-consensual abuse is taking place and that this is in any way morally acceptable.

And in my opinion, even in a discussion about viewers' wishes and preferences, it is important to remember that the ones trying to make these wishes come true are human beings who don't want to get hurt (of course I'm not talking about physical pain in this context) and whose limits have to be respected. To my mind customers have a responsibility to care about whether the products they buy have been produced under ethical conditions. For me this goes not only for cosmetics and animal experiments or clothes and child labour - just to name two famous examples. It also applies to spanking porn and model abuse. 

Interestingly, Bill, after some initial raging against the people who were "attacking" him, later modified his position: "I am not talking about forcing someone to do something they don’t want to do. [...]  I'm talking about willing 'actresses' and intelligent creative directors working together to make a great video. [...] I want the actress to WANT the onion there because she wants to make a great video." I'm perfectly fine with that.

However, it was obvious that he still had little consideration for models' personal feelings. In Bill's mind, there are certain things a spanking model just has to be prepared to do for the viewers' pleasure, or else, she is not worthy of respect: "If crying on camera is too personal for her then what right does she have to be respected as an actress in spanking videos? [...] I believe people in a creative industry should be dedicated to what they do. I really have no clue why someone would have a problem with this comment. As far as I'm concerned a spanking model who does think tears are too personal to show on camera really has no grasp of what customers actually want or the dedication to the genre needed to make a great video."

So, not being willing to satisfy the viewers' fantasies (Bill assumes here that his preferences represent those of the majority of spanking video consumers) means that a model obviously doesn't show enough dedication to her work and, of course, to the paying customers. I wonder if he would still feel that way if he had ever been in front of a camera himself - as a bottom! To be honest, Bill's attitude is one of the reasons why I only do those things in front of a camera with which I'm absolutely comfortable and why I still sometimes feel awkward when publishing clips, despite of my precautions.

In any case, the more general question about the ethical responsibilities which do or do not go along with watching spanking porn is, in my view, a very interesting and important one.

As far as I understood Zille, she doesn't want her "What do YOU want from spanking porn?" thread turn into a discussion about ethical questions because that might scare people away from telling her about their fantasies. I respect Zille's point of view. But I would love to discuss the topic here on our blog. So, please, if you have any thoughts on this topic that you like to share, use the comment section here and don't flood Zille's comment thread with this moral discussion. If you want to tell her what you want from spanking porn, though, her thread is of course the right one!