tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post9167435720001774677..comments2023-10-18T09:35:55.767+02:00Comments on LUDWIG'S ROHRSTOCK-PALAST: Insulting the Flag?Ludwighttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14975294529532823252noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-18195803916110432872009-01-05T15:24:00.000+01:002009-01-05T15:24:00.000+01:00Indy said... I'm just relieved you didn't u...Indy said...<BR/><BR/> I'm just relieved you didn't use an American flag in this base and disrespectful way. Surely the Stars and Stripes *IS* actually a religious symbol!<BR/><BR/> December 22, 2008 8:41 PM<BR/><BR/>Stars and stripes would be good for a nice spanking video. The spankee sees stars while the spanker sees stripes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-4380819641559378572008-12-26T03:50:00.000+01:002008-12-26T03:50:00.000+01:00Photino: 1848 was indeed one of the big years in E...Photino: 1848 was indeed one of the big years in European history, and a very interesting one, because of a wave of revolutions. It started in January in Sicily, then France was next (leading to the French Second Republic), then the unrest spread to the rest of Europe. The revolution in Germany failed, of course, because as the old joke goes, revolutions are illegal in Germany...<BR/><BR/>Just look up "Revolutions of 1848" on Wikipedia and take it from there (actually, that page prominently shows the painting I posted here, even though I got it from a different page).<BR/><BR/>Indy: Yeah, you old super patriot, we all know you have the stars and stripes even on your underwear (which comes down before the spanking starts, of course, so as to not insult the flag).<BR/><BR/>K'Ehleyr: I agree that it's harder to see how to bring religious symbols together with a spanking video, and what one could possibly achieve with it. I suppose that, for me, they could have a place in a video that makes fun not of Christianity as such, but of fundamentalists or hypocrites - people who preach love and tolerance, but live hate and bigotry. In other words, people who call themselves Christians, but aren't really Christian at all.<BR/><BR/>As for making fun of the Christian values themselves, that also falls under the freedom of opinion and I would defend the right of others to do it. But it's not a kind of humour I personally consider to be very interesting or intelligent, so I wouldn't do it myself.<BR/><BR/>Regarding agnosticism, I'm glad that my comment inspired you to learn something new, but I'm not sure it's such an interesting philosophy myself. It's arguably a bit of a cop-out, really! Sitting on the fence between theism and atheism. But it just happens to be the place where, all things considered, I find myself sitting, at least at the present time.Ludwighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14975294529532823252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-12101029245280261412008-12-23T11:57:00.000+01:002008-12-23T11:57:00.000+01:00Ludwig, I fully agree with you that Cinderella sho...Ludwig, I fully agree with you that Cinderella should have reacted in a different way. I think she hasn’t really reflected on the whole topic (yet), so her reaction seems to be based simply on her emotions and not on rational arguments. That’s also a part of what I mean when I’m talking about “insecurity” on a certain field.<BR/><BR/>Concerning the religious symbols: I already assumed that my interpretation of what you said about religious symbols is different from what you intended to say. Actually I would have been very surprised if you disapproved of the usage of religious symbols in a humorous way. But I guess you are absolutely right about the slightly different sensitivity between a flag and a religious symbol. Yesterday a friend from the local parish send me a link to an article about a council in south Devon which lifted its “Life of Brian” ban this year and showed the film for the first time! And being really honest I have to admit that the thought of the usage of religious symbols in a humorous spanking clip causes a slightly strange feeling within me whereas the usage of the flag in your clip didn’t have that effect on me. I don’t think that the Christian values are inherently incompatible with kink or porn but I have to admit that I wouldn’t know how to bring the two things together in one clip…<BR/><BR/>Last but not least: It’s absolutely amazing how often I start an internet research after having read something you wrote. This time I learned something about agnosticism – a very interesting philosophical view! Thanks!<BR/><BR/>K’EhleyrAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-88763305730579605702008-12-22T20:41:00.000+01:002008-12-22T20:41:00.000+01:00Ah, excellent! I've been catching up after a few ...Ah, excellent! I've been catching up after a few days away from the internet, but I was looking forward to learning the history of the German flag.<BR/><BR/>I'm just relieved you didn't use an American flag in this base and disrespectful way. Surely the Stars and Stripes *IS* actually a religious symbol!Indyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11949593044223905786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-4733683707961290472008-12-22T19:27:00.000+01:002008-12-22T19:27:00.000+01:00Thanks for your reply, Ludwig. History truly is f...Thanks for your reply, Ludwig. History truly is fascinating! I’m aware of 1848 as a ‘big’ year in European history – I’ll have to look it up and discover why.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-42841266835132252592008-12-22T16:40:00.000+01:002008-12-22T16:40:00.000+01:00Photino: The black, red and gold flag is much olde...Photino: The black, red and gold flag is much older than the Federal Republic of Germany. The colours originated in the early 19th century, during the liberation wars against Napoleon Bonaparte.<BR/><BR/>One of the units in that conflict was the Freikorps Lützow, the free corps Lützow, named after its commander. It was part of the Prussian army, but in it fought volunteers from all corners of Germany. They were required to supply their own clothing, and many of them brought different local uniforms. One pragmatic way of turning them into a proper unified military unit was to dye all the clothing black. They also got red rank insignia and golden brass buttons, and voila, you had the three colours.<BR/><BR/>The combination also found its expression in a famous saying from that time: "From darkness through blood to the light." In other words, from occupation and oppression, through sacrifice and struggle, to freedom.<BR/><BR/>In subsequent years, the black, red and gold colours became associated with republican and liberal ideas, and with the unification of Germany under such values. They were proposed as the national flag during the failed revolution of 1848, which is why you see it on the painting from that year.<BR/><BR/>Of course, the 19th century aristocrats despised the "lowly" black, red and gold flag and the democratic values it stood for, as did Hitler's fascists later on. To them, it was an object of hatred. The flag is not only a symbol for the nation as such, but also for a particular type of government, which is why it was adopted by the Federal Republic after WWII (and by the short-lived Weimar Republic before it).Ludwighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14975294529532823252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-74418354539313146742008-12-22T16:09:00.000+01:002008-12-22T16:09:00.000+01:00K'Ehleyr: An interesting comment and an interestin...K'Ehleyr: An interesting comment and an interesting theory.<BR/><BR/>Obviously, Cinderella does care about the flag and what it symbolises to her, or else she would not have complained. But if she is insecure about that or if she believes that someone is disrespectful of her values, a better course of action, in my view, would have been to ask about it first and get some clarity: "Hey, wait a minute, what were you trying to say about the flags in that clip? Were you trying to say anything at all?" However, what I object to is her blatant (and simplistic) assertion that "This video insults the German flag!", full stop.<BR/><BR/>About religious symbols: I did not want to imply that it's not okay to use them in a humourous way. It certainly is, and I'm a big fan of "The Life of Brian", actually. I'm an agnostic myself, but even if I were a believer, I certainly wouldn't have a problem with parodies of my religion. On the contrary: like you, I love to laugh about things that are important to me. It's a healthy thing to get some perspective and not take everything awfully seriously all the time.<BR/><BR/>In any case, religious symbols are fair game, too, in a secular society like ours. However, I think that the issue is a bit more sensitive and more prone to controversy than national symbols are. I would have an easier time understanding a negative reaction to the "abuse" of religious symbols, even though I wouldn't agree with that reaction.<BR/><BR/>Some reasons for this are:<BR/><BR/>1) Unlike national flags, religious symbols are actually often regarded as holy objects "in themselves" by the believers.<BR/><BR/>2) Arguably, religious beliefs are more intimate and important to most believers than patriotic beliefs are to most citizens, and therefore, they are more easily hurt - which is why, even in our secular society, religious beliefs enjoy a special protection.<BR/><BR/>3) It could also be argued that there is an inherent contradiction between being, say, a Christian or a Muslim on the one hand, and shooting erotic videos on the other. Mind you, I don't agree with this opinion at all - I think the two things are quite compatible, really, depending on your take on that religion.<BR/><BR/>But I know that a significant number of Christians or Muslims would argue that they are not. They would say that their values are inherently incompatible with kink or porn. By contrast, it's hard to see someone making the same argument about the values symbolised by the German flag.<BR/><BR/>As I said, I don't agree with these points, but I can understand someone making them. So, in practice, religious symbols are a slightly different beast I think. That is all I meant to say with my comparison - not that the humourous use of religious symbols is a problem, but that such a use of national symbols is "even less" of a problem.Ludwighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14975294529532823252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-85717984655604114322008-12-22T15:28:00.000+01:002008-12-22T15:28:00.000+01:00Rachel (or should I call you "Exclamation Mark"?):...Rachel (or should I call you "Exclamation Mark"?):<BR/><BR/>Part of the reasoning behind Cinderella's complaint could indeed be that the flag was used in a way that it wasn't intended to be, but that is not a very good argument, either. When you come to think of it, we constantly use objects to do things they weren't originally designed for. It would be a shame if we didn't.<BR/><BR/>The German flag was certainly not created to be used as a spanking implement (neither were hairbrushes or carpet beaters), but it wasn't intended as headgear for football fans, either. Does that mean we shouldn't be using it for such purposes, though? That's another question entirely. "Inappropriate" use in the sense of "not in the design" does not, of course, automatically make it inappropriate in terms of morals.<BR/><BR/>I also disagree with the notion that spanking someone with a flag is akin to wiping someone's bottom with it. In my view, those are two very different situations with very different associations. The latter would actually have a strong implication of (literally) "soiling" the flag and maybe wanting to devalue it - using it, basically, as mere toilet paper. I could understand why someone might interpret that as a deliberate insult, but I can't when the flag is used as a CP instrument.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, as I wrote, I for one believe that Cinderella's reaction came mostly from a diffuse, unreflected view of patriotism and national symbols, and probably also from secret discomfort about kink. It's true, as you say, that all of us kinky people struggle with our erotic fantasies at some point - Niki did, I did, and I'm sure you did as well. Hopefully, though, that doesn't turn us into prudes with no sense of humour...Ludwighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14975294529532823252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-82425033785362621062008-12-20T10:03:00.000+01:002008-12-20T10:03:00.000+01:00Oh, and PS, 'Germaina' does look rather cute, in a...Oh, and PS, 'Germaina' does look rather cute, in a stern, Teutonic sort of a way. I bet she knows how to use a cane ;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-81229726611206662512008-12-20T09:51:00.000+01:002008-12-20T09:51:00.000+01:00Ludwig - that picture is dated 1848, but appears t...Ludwig - that picture is dated 1848, but appears to show the flag of the German Federal Republic. Am I missing something? Please explain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-15478169832835025582008-12-19T21:58:00.000+01:002008-12-19T21:58:00.000+01:00A few days ago when I saw that there were a lot of...A few days ago when I saw that there were a lot of comments on your clip at Spankingtube I already read Cinderella’s posts and your answers. This blog entry is an interesting follow-up on the topic.<BR/><BR/>I don’t think Cinderella’s reaction is something that is typical only for kinky people and I don’t think that it is caused (solely) by the fact that the clip contains sexual content. I’m quite sure that it is a kind of reaction many people show in very different situations. My theory is that people react that way in situations where two conditions are fulfilled. The first condition is that the topic must be something that is important to them and symbolizes values they have. The second condition is that it is a field on which they feel somehow “insecure” believing that others don’t respect their values. My guess is that the flag stands for (some of) Cinderella’s values. For some reason she must feel so insecure on that field that she feels insulted by the fact that someone is using the flag in a humorous way.<BR/> <BR/>I’ve seen that kind of pattern in my own behaviour, so I might use this as an example. For several reasons I don’t drink much alcohol. When I was a teenager this was something that made me different from others. I knew it was considered to be cool to drink alcohol at the parties and I felt insecure because I didn’t know whether the others would respect my decision. So I felt very uncomfortable at the parties where others drank alcohol and felt almost insulted every time someone asked me why I had decided not to drink alcohol. Today being more self-confident on that topic I am much more relaxed and don’t feel that uncomfortable when others are having fun drinking alcohol or ask me why I don’t do it.<BR/><BR/>On the contrary I love to laugh about things that are important to me and with which I haven’t got any issues. Being a Star Trek fan I love all the parodies on Star Trek and working as an IT-developer “Dilbert” comics always make me laugh a lot.<BR/><BR/>There is one thing you say I don’t agree with. You say that “a flag is not some hallowed or untouchable thing. It's not a holy symbol like a Christian cross or an Islamic star and crescent.” This implies to me that it wouldn’t be okay to use those symbols in a humorous way. I am of the opinion that nothing is really “untouchable” as long as someone who is using a symbol knows about the values behind it and is not simply intending to insult the people who believe in these values. My all-time favourite movie is Monty Python’s “Life of Brian”. All of my friends from our local parish know that movie and most of them love it. Those who don’t like it haven’t got any problems with the story. They simply don’t like the Pythonesque humour. I think it is important to have values to believe in and I think it is fantastic if one feels self-confident enough to be able to also look at them in a humorous way from time to time.<BR/><BR/>I liked your clip and I’m happy that there won’t be any censorship on your blog.<BR/><BR/>K’EhleyrAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-27397777815301891922008-12-19T17:34:00.000+01:002008-12-19T17:34:00.000+01:00Awsome post, again =)I think a large part of this ...Awsome post, again =)<BR/><BR/>I think a large part of this "double standard" comes from what Marcuse would call "surplus repression," which is repression necessitated not by the growth and preservation of civilization but by the vested interest in maintaining an established society. The flag - of any country, really - is a symbol of an established society, and I guess by using it as a spanking implement, one could say that you are taking that symbol and using it in a way it was not intended to be used. Also, the fact that the flag touches someone's ass during the spanking might also be offensive because it's almost as if you're wiping someone's ass with the flag - that is, in both cases, the flag makes contact with (a very beautiful) bottom.<BR/><BR/>As to how sex and porn are "low and primitive," I don't understand why people who enjoy these things think about them that way. I mean, sure, it may be looked down upon in society, but so what? Pornography is made to be watched - but no one watches openly. Why are people ashamed to admit that they enjoy something sexual?<BR/><BR/>Besides, one could argue that the German flag, or any flag, is more basic than any of the porn videos out there. After all, the design is simple - three stripes of different colours. I honestly don't see how flags are as "exalted" as people make them out to be. They're nothing but symbols of countries.<BR/><BR/>On the same note, I'm sure everyone's struggled with accepting their sexuality. Even in Dances With Werewolves, Niki describes a time in which she almost hid her sexuality. However, to stay that way forever would be a shame. <BR/><BR/>Happy to hear that you won't censor your opinions though. While I don't agree with all of them, they are certainly interesting to read. People (cough*Cinderella*cough) need to become more open-minded and learn to accept differences and move on.!https://www.blogger.com/profile/09354727465249079865noreply@blogger.com