tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post5160900059398692362..comments2023-10-18T09:35:55.767+02:00Comments on LUDWIG'S ROHRSTOCK-PALAST: Mark II: Dispositions and TriggersLudwighttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14975294529532823252noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-88060789610740787632008-03-27T23:33:00.000+01:002008-03-27T23:33:00.000+01:00Ludwig, I think if you go past a trilogy you're ob...Ludwig, I think if you go past a trilogy you're obligated to write six Mark of Cain posts so that you can have two trilogies. <BR/><BR/>I'm enjoying reading everyone's responses and look forward to the next installment.Indyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11949593044223905786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-59910667939681730032008-03-27T15:53:00.000+01:002008-03-27T15:53:00.000+01:00"I hope you'll give the full treatment to a post o..."I hope you'll give the full treatment to a post on power structures and the authority issue because I see those elements at the core of all my fantasies."<BR/><BR/>Yes, I've decided to do that already. Originally, "Mark of Cain" was supposed to be a trilogy, with the third part not going into any more theory, but describing my own "awakening experiences" during childhood. But I find the authority issue so interesting myself that I'm going to do a post on it, and after that, "Mark IV" will be about me.<BR/><BR/>So it's going to be a tetralogy now - I believe that is the word.Ludwighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14975294529532823252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-29795884142386544332008-03-27T13:22:00.000+01:002008-03-27T13:22:00.000+01:00I hope you'll give the full treatment to a post on...I hope you'll give the full treatment to a post on power structures and the authority issue because I see those elements at the core of all my fantasies.<BR/><BR/>In reality I'm highly resentful of certain types of authority and erotically charged by others. I can't help but squirm every time I'm faced with the passport control queue in a foreign airport. I always try to pick the most "toppish" looking man to hand my passport to.<BR/><BR/>Uniforms do trigger something in me, though the person wearing it won't find me submissive unless they have genuine authority. (A belligerent cop, for example, wouldn't earn my respect.)<BR/><BR/>However, women are at a disadvantage with me and I can probably count on one hand the female authority figures I have genuinely respected in my life. (Freud would have me blame my mother and he'd be absolutely right!)<BR/><BR/>That's not to say I'm naturally submissive to men. I do certainly get a kick out of rebelling and being subdued. And in that sense, with the right person, I get off on all kinds of abuse and injustice - especially in scenarios where I'm the victim of some political machine. I might be able to fight against one person - a kidnapper, say - but a whole regime? That's a really heady one for me.<BR/><BR/>When I try and trace it back I recall being strongly affected by scenes in movies and books. I learned to eroticise fear from horror movies. Being chased, cornered, captured, tortured, escaping only to be recaptured, etc... And of course there were other torture/interrogation scenarios - the Spanish Inquisition certainly sticks in my head, though I can't remember what films I saw about it as a child. Though I thought I was sick, torture fascinated me endlessly. All those ingenious devices designed for the purpose of having total control over another person... Yeah, it made an impression.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-52039193166546644992008-03-26T11:03:00.000+01:002008-03-26T11:03:00.000+01:00That's an interesting post, Indiana, thanks for br...That's an interesting post, Indiana, thanks for bringing it to my attention.<BR/><BR/>Like you, I don't really agree with Jon's theory, though, and I see several problems with it. To start with, he seems to think that "authority" is synonymous with "unjust authority". At least the examples he cites are usually of unwarranted, excessive punishments. So the dislike he feels as a reaction seems to be not so much a dislike of authority per se, but a dislike of injustice. These are two seperate things.<BR/><BR/>Some bottoms / submissives I know enjoy "injustice" in a kinky scenario (I don't think anyone enjoys injustice in real life) - excessiveness, coercion, abuse of power. They actually get off on that. Others prefer a scenario where the authority is just and, in a way, benevolent. Where they agree with the purpose. "This is for your own good, young lady! You do know that you deserve this punishment?" "Yes, Sir, I do!"<BR/><BR/>They all like finding themselves under someone's authority in a scenario, they just like different forms of it. And maybe, depending on the personality of the submissive, it's not the acceptance of authority they enjoy, but the rebellion against it. Judging by my own experience, it is probably a little of both: you rebel, and then you are forced to comply. That seems to be the kick for most.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, none of the submissives / bottoms I know unquestioningly accept authority in real life. In fact, they have a strong non-conformist streak, just as all kinky people do. I'd say that you need this streak, and a strong, independent personality, in order to be able to give up control and be a submissive in the first place.<BR/><BR/>I agree with you that someone who unquestioningly accepts authority in real life will probably turn into a vanilla, because they will accept the prevailing attitude that vanilla sex is the only "normal", hence the right way. They're not going to turn into kinky submissives.<BR/><BR/>So Jon not only confuses authority with injustice, he also confuses acceptance of authority in play with acceptance of authority in real life. Obviously, though, you can be a strong individualist and a non-conformist in real life, and in spite of this (maybe because of it!), you can crave authority in a kinky scenario.<BR/><BR/>As well as that, his theory seems to run into problems when it has to explain the existence of switches. Is a switch someone who dislikes authority or who accepts it? Or both at the same time, somehow? It's true that very few switches are dominant and submissive in equal measure - usually, one of the sides is stronger, like the dominant side in my case. Still, the "authority theory" is in trouble here, because if it were true, there probably wouldn't be switches of any kind.<BR/><BR/>I'd say that a switch will tend to be a non-conformist in real life, as most kinky people are. In play, he / she will enjoy all the aspects of authority that make it interesting for a dominant or a submissive, depending on his / her frame of mind at the time: craving authority, rebelling against it, being in charge, building your own power structures etc.<BR/><BR/>Fascination with power and authority seems to be a common trait of kinky minds, both dominant and submissive. I feel silly about leaving it out in my original post - maybe I overlooked it because it is so obvious. The real-life scenarios we enjoy playing out are all about power structures (school, prison, military, boss and secretary...).<BR/><BR/>And for quite a few of us, this fascination also seems to extend beyond kinky play. I certainly have it, and it probably explains, in part at least, my interest in history and politics. I've met many other spankos who were interested in the same things, and not just for kinky inspiration.<BR/><BR/>In summary, while I don't agree with Jon's take on it, the whole power / authority issue, and the question of whether it forms an integral part of the kinky mind, is certainly worth pursuing. Thanks again for brining it up.Ludwighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14975294529532823252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-81193694777758870292008-03-26T02:28:00.000+01:002008-03-26T02:28:00.000+01:00I love the Blake painting, too, Ludwig, and I don'...I love the Blake painting, too, Ludwig, and I don't think I've ever seen it before, so thanks for working it into this post, no matter how tenuous the thematic connection!<BR/><BR/>You might want to read this post from Schwartz Thoughts, which got me thinking about the authority issue. He mused that a strong dislike of authority would be more likely to make you a top, whereas those who didn't mind it would be bottoms. Several bottoms took issue with that. He didn't respond, so the conversation didn't continue, but it is a very interesting post. My take is that the people who accept authority blithely are more likely to be vanilla than bottoms. I'd be interested to know what others think. <BR/><BR/>http://schwarzthoughts.blogspot.com/2008/01/mixed-feelings.html<BR/><BR/>IndianaIndyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11949593044223905786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-46604633447688195232008-03-25T18:45:00.000+01:002008-03-25T18:45:00.000+01:00Now if you're willing to consider the possibility ...Now if you're willing to consider the possibility of reincarnation, that opens a whole new window on the subject of predilection, whether it be to sexual kinks, or anything else for that matter.<BR/><BR/>Read <A HREF="http://alexchattingplace.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">Alex's historical treatise posted today on Catherine de Medici </A>and ask yourself whether she'd still be kinky if she was reincarnated today.Karl Friedrich Gausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01229774469243094801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-16051293837691714932008-03-25T18:18:00.000+01:002008-03-25T18:18:00.000+01:00"Blake, Goethe, spanking and how we got to be kink..."Blake, Goethe, spanking and how we got to be kinky all in one post?"<BR/><BR/>It is a bit pretentious, but then again, that's just how I am... The Blake didn't really fit except for a vague connection with the "Mark of Cain" theme, but I just love his painting.<BR/><BR/>"I think the triggers may play a greater role in *how* the kink manifests itself than whether it does, though."<BR/><BR/>Yes, that is probably true. The kind of scenes you see will certainly make a difference. In my case, it was spankings, whippings and canings. With other people, it could be bondage, racks or any other kind of torture. I still believe that there are people out there who could have been kinky (genetically speaking) but aren't, because they never got to see any trigger at all when the time was "right".<BR/><BR/>"I think a lot of kinky people also have a fascination with power and authority that stems in part from a tendency not to accept societally imposed power structures."<BR/><BR/>That's a very interesting idea. I hadn't considered it before, but now that I've thought of it, it makes a lot of sense. Thanks!Ludwighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14975294529532823252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-46915436528195900532008-03-25T16:45:00.000+01:002008-03-25T16:45:00.000+01:00Blake, Goethe, spanking and how we got to be kinky...Blake, Goethe, spanking and how we got to be kinky all in one post? Very impressive. I agree with you about both triggers and hard-wiring playing a role. I think the triggers may play a greater role in *how* the kink manifests itself than whether it does, though.<BR/><BR/>I also agree about imagination and a sense of adventure. Probably also about a fascination with the macabre, even though I don't share that trait. I get too involved when I watch films and can't separate them from reality very well, so horror films are out for me!<BR/><BR/>I think a lot of kinky people also have a fascination with power and authority that stems in part from a tendency not to accept societally imposed power structures. So one imagines creating one's own power structure for play. Or from the other side, one makes a game of fighting the imposed authority, subtly or blatantly, and for most of us, much more daringly than we would in real life.Indyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11949593044223905786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-68036312734110457722008-03-25T13:33:00.000+01:002008-03-25T13:33:00.000+01:00I'm not really sure what you (or your doctor) mean...I'm not really sure what you (or your doctor) mean with "the sexual side" and "the kink side". I agree that spanking and CP is "not always about sex". For me, it isn't about sex at all, I don't combine it with sex and I don't like movies that combine the two.<BR/><BR/>That said, I do believe that spanking and CP are always an erotic, arousing thing, and that this is how the kinky side arises, because we make a connection between the two. But if I understand you correctly, your doctor said that the kinky side (as it arises during childhood) is seperate from sexual turn ons, and that they only come in during puberty.<BR/><BR/>It's an interesting view, but I'm not sure that it is accurate for all cases. I certainly remember being sexually aroused by scenes of spanking and CP during childhood. That said, I could be wrong. Memories can be unreliable, especially when they are from so long ago. But I am fairly sure that it was always an erotic thing for me, even before puberty and before I knew what the word "erotic" meant.<BR/><BR/>In any case, thanks for your comment, it adds another angle to think about.Ludwighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14975294529532823252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-616982860776135414.post-32018375927415588022008-03-25T06:49:00.000+01:002008-03-25T06:49:00.000+01:00I do not want to go into too much detail about a p...I do not want to go into too much detail about a particular period of my life (it was very bad) but it did end up with myself doing a lot of time with a psychologist. After "giving up" for about 3 years the breakdown of my emotional defence systems was traced back to the time I stopped getting my ass whupped. In the end the diagnosis was resume the life style because it is imposible to cope with the rest of life without it (I have to get spanked, I have a note from the doctor).<BR/><BR/>The upside of this was an evaluation of the pre sexual childhood fantasies and the effects that puberty and adolesence have on those. The "kink" is basicaly an entity on it's own and becomes mixed up with sexual turn ons as people grow up and become sexualy aware. Most people are unable to seperate the sexual and non sexual sides of their kink but they are seperate and seperable.<BR/><BR/>I have not put that very well but what I am trying to say is that someone who has a greater knowledge of the workings of the human mind, than myself, has informed me that it is not always about sex and athough it is not a bad thing to combine the sexual side and the kink side, the two can be seperated and enjoyed on their own.<BR/><BR/>PrefectdtSPANKEDHORTIChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01555647356077533450noreply@blogger.com